SFR 89: What Order To Create Your Value Ladder Products… – Stephen Larsen

SFR 89: What Order To Create Your Value Ladder Products…

Dec 6th, 2017 anchorwave

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DON’T Create Your Products Out Of Order (YES, It Matters)…


Hey, what’s going on everyone? This is Steve Larsen and you’re listening to Sales of Funnel Radio.

Welcome to Sales Funnel Radio where you will learn marketing strategies to grow your on-line business using today’s best internet sales funnels. Now, here’s your host, Steve Larson.

What’s going on everyone? I am a kid at heart. What can I say? I’m going to be that way on purpose till I die. Do not make me into an adult. Hey, all right it’s like [spp-timestamp time="10:00"]. I’ve got three nights left before I’m going to go fly to Dallas, which I am super excited about. I am going to speak at Danny Vega’s and James Smiley’s B2B Mastermind, which, I am super excited about. It will be awesome.

But I am up tonight and I am thinking through like the different things I am going to give and offer there and I am pumped about it. Ultimately I am going to do the same to you guys … You know, if you want it. It’s almost sad, I am putting the slides together, I’m putting together what I am going to deliver and put up there. It will be a three hour presentation, which I am really excited about, be fun.

Click FunnelsAnyway, I am thinking through a lot of the different funnels that I have built over the last little while. I am way past 300 funnels built in the last year and half. I have no idea how many it is now. I mean, it’s huge. Anyway, I lost count.

I know that, like there is one project once that was 82 funnels alone. I mean so honestly it could be in the 400’s. I have no idea. I know that it is a crap ton. I was thinking through all the funnels. It was actually a lot of fun. Anyway, I think it was two weeks ago, I built a membership funnel live.

A lot of people don’t know you can build member areas inside Click Funnels that are amazing and frankly I still think that it’s the best even out of Kajabi even out of all the other member area places, I still think that the Click Funnels ones are the best because it is still geared toward you continuing to be able to sell more and more and more. There is a lot of stuff that you can do inside member areas to increase your revenue even inside the member area that I don’t know that you can do inside of other places.

Anyway, lot of fun stuff. Went great. So I build the member’s area live. It was, we had about 35-ish people watch the entire four and half hours while I built it live. And it was really fun because they could get there and they could interact with me. I did that for a live webinar funnel probably about a month ago and I just built out the entire thing live again, which, is a lot of fun.

And I am going to do it again. I thought I would invite you guys to come along and join if you want to. It’s one of the things that I will be giving and offering over to this mastermind too, in Dallas, which I am really pumped about. The pressure is on though. Man, got three days. It will be awesome. Just want to make it awesome, so …

December 2nd, what I am going to be doing is I am going to be building an application funnel. A high ticket coaching application funnel. Could be a coaching funnel. Could be some kind of application funnel. Could be high ticket product funnel. Could be whatever, whatever it is where someone has got to send or submit in an application.

I am going to be building that funnel type. I’ll show you three different strategies I have used as well. It has been kind of fun. I launched one of these of my own about a week ago in a different industry and it’s going really, really well. I was able to pioneer a few different things that I am going to show you guys and it’s working. It’s been so cool to see it work. Oh, my gosh. Stuff I’ve never seen and even know what to do before.

Anyway, if you guys want to go and watch it live and participate and things like that. It’ll be at…

That is where you can register. I set it up just like a webinar on Zoom, but you guys can be on there, live with me and actually ask questions as we go through the whole thing and it’s a lot of fun.

Last group, anyway I know they learned a lot. I learned a lot. It was a lot of fun. I build from literally the ground up. Start from absolutely scratch and just show a lot of my different design principles and strategies. Things that are really fast. I build the whole thing together usually ahead of time. Try to have some assets together so that I’m not just filling in the blanks with dummy texts and things like that. It’s great.

Anyway, so plan on about four hours if you guys want to come watch, it’s Saturday morning usually starting about [spp-timestamp time="8:00"] in the morning. [spp-timestamp time="8:00"] or [spp-timestamp time="9:00"] something like that Mountain Standard Time. You guys can jump on and watch.

If you are listening to this episode and it is past December 2nd, for you and I guess for everyone else. I am going to be restructuring Sales Funnel Broker as I’ve, as I’ve … It’s great. I’ve tried to make it as a cool resource, a place that people could just download cool funnels. Some of them for free, some of them for paid. Show some of my other resources I use as I, you know that I used to funnel build with, but I need to revamp it.

You know. I launched that before I even started podcasting so, I mean it’s been out there for like a year and half. There is a lot of stuff I got to go update. I’ve got some cool ideas for it. I’m going to be selling some more … Okay, just think about this for a second.

I have built a ton of sales funnels in the last year and a half alright and I built funnels well before working for Russell on WordPress, which is terrible in different ways. On my own with Click Funnels during and it’s been awesome.

But, there are repeatedly the same funnels that I build over and over and over again that just kill it. Some of them in no matter what industry and some of them in very specific industries. What I was thinking is I’ve been listing out this huge list of funnels that I build over and over and over again.

Why would I not build them from ground up with you guys so you can see how to do it and then at the end I will sell the share funnels as well as the recording with it. As well as, I always make these really in depth PDF maps so you can see what is going on, on each page. Why I do what I do, where it’s hooking into.

The automation behind it. Is there any third party stuff. Am I hooking stuff up with Zappy or how do I? I mean all the stuff that I am doing. And I want to be able to do and deep dive those things with you guys so that you’ve got even more power behind you on building these things.

Anyway that’s what’s been going on this last little bit. It’s been a whole lot of fun. I have been building. I just built an application style funnel. That one took me a couple of weeks ’cause I had to go film stuff and anyway it’s been, but it was a lot of fun. There is a new take on the application itself funnel that I haven’t really put out there before and it’s been awesome. I kind of made it up. It’s been working and it’s in a different industry. It’s been awesome but, anyway, been cool.

Anyway, bit of a plug there…

Whatever it’s blatant and I hope you guys join.

Hey, so, what I want to talk through real quick is the application style funnel. All right and real quick, so I don’t know wherever you are or whatever but if you want to draw a value ladder. Right. At the bottom of a value ladder, and if you guys have never drawn before or this is your first time on the episode, or whatever it is at the very bottom of, like, lets, so the very lowest step.

Let’s say if you drew three steps of some stairs. On the very first step there that’s typically where we have like a lot of free shipping stuff there. Free stuff in general. Free, free, free, free, free. Like lots of free stuff. Somewhere, usually between the first and the second stair step, personally that’s where I draw. Like I call it the money barrier. When you break the money barrier, that’s when you actually start to sift out actual customers versus freeloaders. Okay? It’s super important.

Something you always want to do. I put out lots of content for free. But eventually I sift you guys out. Who is it that is actually willing to pay to play? Who is actually willing to pay to learn and actually run fast with the people who are sprinting into certain industries. You know what I mean?

Like, you’ve got to do the same thing. Pump tons of free content out there or whatever it is and then eventually you’ve got to have this barrier where you charge someone some money. Right? Then typically in the middle of the value ladder what I do is have a $1000 to $2000 product. Somewhere in that area. Right? That kind of becomes the core of the business.

Value LadderThat’s actually where I start. I start. When I start at, I only have you know. I’m doing my best to have one value ladder at a time. I know I did an episode a little while ago on that, but I try and do one value ladder where I start in the middle of the value ladder. I actually don’t start at the bottom. I don’t start by giving away free plus shipping things or the little tiny front end products or the little tiny.

I’ll start by giving out free lots of content and publishing. But I actually don’t start selling stuff, you know, I start with the $1000 to $2000 range in any business. Because, you know when I am consulting or my own self or whatever it is, because it does not take many $1000 to $2000 sales to make a dent in the wall. It does not take many $1000 to $2000 sales to give you awesome profit to dump back into ads.

How many $7 products do you got to sale to actually make a profit? A ton. Right? I would rather the market tell me what to create on those front end products. I don’t want to guess. That’s super risky. Seen a lot of people waste a lot of time on lower front end products. They don’t work. It’s a huge shame. I mean cause you just wasted all that time.

You know so, what I do is start with the middle of the value ladder and then what I do is I typically also. Number one, start in the middle. Number two I go to a high ticket product in the back end. I don’t go to the front end yet. This is the order in which, what should I call it. This is the order to create products on the value ladder. This is the order to do it.

That I’ve seen work the best that I’ve done many times. Number one I start in the middle. Number two, I go back to the high end stuff. At least $5000. Right? $10,000, $15,000, 25 grand, in that range. You know, at least 5k though. Okay I guarantee, I mean if you’ve got any value at all you’ve pumped into the market place you could charge five grand for an event and get a few people to come in.

That’s actually how Russell started by selling those events. It actually started in events. He did that. He sold an event for $5000 and got two people to pay and was like, “What the heck? That’s so cool.”

Number one, start with the core, number two you do kind of the back end. Number three, that’s when I start creating front end products. That’s when you start creating your little $7 things. Your $27 things, your $50 your $100 things, maybe even up to $300 things.

If you start by, you know it’s funny when you read the book Dotcom Secrets a lot of times what it makes you think is that you need to start the creation for your business the order is to create them is that you start with those front end things and that’s just not how you do it.

If you do it that way you are guessing. It’s a lot of volume you’ve got to go through to actually make that thing convert before you’ve got to keep tweaking it before it actually. I mean even Russell himself when we launched those when we launched our own funnels. Most of the time round one they are not usually not successful out of the gate.

Okay. It’s usually when we make the second tweak. The first tweak the second tweak that’s when they get wildly profitable. And Russell is Russell Brunson. He’s I … Second to him I have probably built more funnels than anyone I know. Any guru I know. Anyone. Like period, but he’s number one though.

He’s done it, way, more than I have. Does that make sense? Like that’s crazy. Even for him. Okay. If you look at how click funnels did stuff as well. Click funnels started by selling $1000 product called Funnel Hacks. Then it went into events and higher ticket things in the background. And then started creating things like Dotcom Secrets and front end things and Funnel Swag and Frontal U and Frontal Graffiti and all these front end products that all lead into the same thing. Does that make sense?

For whatever reason it gets like it’s sexy in someones head to do it the other way around or we start there. Don’t start there. Do that last. Do that last when, when … ‘Cause here’s what is going to happen. When, you start selling $1000 product, when, you start selling something that is thousand bucks, right? Or $2000 or whatever it is. The core of your business. I’m not saying it has to be that. But it’s got to be enough money where it doesn’t take many of them to really make a dent. Right? … Where, you can dump huge profits back into ads. Right?

QuestionWhen you start doing that you are going to get feedback in the form of complaints. It’s just part of it. I remember the first time that ever happened for me. I was like why the heck are you complaining about this? “I wish you did X, Y, and Z. I wish you did this. Blah. Wipe my butt.” You know and I was like, “Oh, my gosh. Are you serious?”

What’s going to happen is you are going to start to get feedback in the form of complaints.

Now it is your job as the entrepreneur to sift the complaints and you want to sift them into two different groups. You are going to sift the complaints number one into feedback for how to tweak your existing offer. Okay. You might be getting these complaints and you’re like, “Crap”.

Wait they are right. I should change X, Y, and Z. I need to tweak this thing. All right. That is what Russell is doing. That is what he and I are doing.

Typically, when we launch something and we’ve got to tweak it the first round or two we are listening to our customer feedback and we’re like “Crap. Let’s sift these things. Okay? Let’s go and et’s tweak the offer. Let’s make it even better.” Right? The second thing though.

The second category you gotta look for is, is when you can sift these customer feedback items and their telling you what to go and create on the front or back end of your value ladder.

They are letting you know. The market is telling what it is that you need to go and create. Okay? These front end products are being created by the customer who bought your middle tier product. That make sense? Let me say it again. Your front end products, typically the most successful ones I’ve ever seen.

Typically, the ones, their being created third. The customer is telling you what they want you to create. They don’t know they are doing that but that is what their doing. We’re taking all those pieces of feedback and we’re saying you know what? People wish they had shirts with our logo on it. Let’s make Frontal Swag.

You know what? People are telling us that they wish that they had something to help them write their copy. Front End Scripts. Right? We didn’t start with front end products like that. We started with the mid and I personally do that as well. I start with the middle area of the value ladder at least $1000. When I get that core down when I get it converting. “Psssh.”

You’ve got yourself an ATM machine. You’ve got a cash machine…

Then you make an application style form on the back end selling your one-on-one coaching, you’re done for your stuff, your implementation styled products. Right? Don’t put implementation styled products. Don’t put coaching. Don’t put one-on-one stuff in the core area. Don’t put yourself in the fulfillment of the core of the value area. You put that in the back end. That is why I am going to build an application stype funnel with you guys. That’s why I am doing that.

If you want to come join me and watch me do it. Right. Get your questions answered then come watch. You can watch the whole thing. I’ll do the whole thing. You can watch for free. You know and follow along. You can do whatever you want anyway, but then I am also going to have for sale the actual funnel themselves as well as the training as well as a whole bunch of other stuff. It’s just going to be awesome. Action sequences, a whole of bunch of other cool things I am going to toss in there for you.

MoneyThen what I do is I build front end products. Front end funnels. Front end things that can with the only intent. You’re not trying to make money on them. The only intent is to recoup ad costs and get customers for free so that anything they do on the middle of the value ladder and on the back of the value ladder is pure profit.

Does that make sense?

This is like value ladder strategy and it always irks me just a little bit when I see someone. I’m like no. Don’t start with the front end product. I’m not telling you, you can’t make money but, you gotta sale a crap load of those things to make a difference in your wallet. I got so animated I just threw my pen. Oh, almost landed in the trash can.

Anyway, so hopefully that helps. That is all I am trying to say with this whole thing. I’ve built a live webinar funnel, live. I built the membership area funnel, live and a lot of cool strategies that showed how to use them in affiliate areas too, which is crazy cool. Then I am going to do an application style funnel as well. All of these are going to be available shortly on If you want it, go check it out.

I’ve got three requests in a single hour to build someones funnel. There is no way I can handle it out. There is no way I am going to try to. Honestly, it would be a disservice if I did try to. It’d be a disservice to all the people that I said. You know that I would say yes to.

The way that I am getting around it is still building the kick butt totally rockin’ funnels that I do know how to build but do it live with you guys in a template where can go do the same thing you are trying to do with it. You know what I mean? That’s why I am trying to do these things live.

For a while, I’ve got a huge list of funnels guys. You guys have join me for a while. I’m. If you want to keep going back to periodically, I’m just going to be building funnels live for quite a while. You guys can still come in. You can still grab them. I am going to be updating a lot of cool stuff and sharing things. It’s the latest and greatest. Things that.

Stuff that I know no one else is doing. Because we either pioneered it or I made it up or I figured it out or we made it up. Or whatever it is.

Anyway, I’m excited. If you want to join you can. Please adhere to funnel strategy that we know works the best. Or I should say value ladder strategy. This is the order to build products on a value ladder. Number one mid tier, not front end. Mid tier, mid product, mid priced at least thousand bucks.

Number two, go towards the back of the value ladder. Go at least $5000 on something. Coaching and event. Some kind of done for you application. Some kind of implementation. That is where we do that, higher up on the value ladder not towards the bottom. Number three, then we do the actual market driven front end products. Not from us with the sole intent to recoup ad costs.

Anyway, I feel like the last few episodes for me have been a lot of techno babbled styled stuff. But I feel like … Anyway, I hope you guys feel and sense that I am just trying to drop gold. These are the things that I do.

Things that we know. Things that I have been doing for a long time and I just. Anyway, it blows me away when someones like “Oh yeah, I’ve got all these front end products and they are doing well, but, I’m not making any money.” It’s like, “Duh.”

‘Cause you’re not supposed to make money with that stuff. That’s supposed to give your customers for free. What’s your actual business? What’s the core? What’s the mid tier product? What’s the back end?

Anyway, so hopefully this has been helpful. Hopefully these episodes have been great. I’ve kind of done some funnel deep dives lately. I’ve got some cool plans for this podcast coming as well. I am excited for you guys to be part of it and. Anyway if you’ve gotten any value at all. I love hearing that. It kind of keeps me going. Keeps me juiced.

Because each one of these episodes honestly takes me in full after creating it, after putting it all together about an hour and half to two hours per episode. It’s nice to hear ever once in a while, like a little shout out. I love it. Super nice. If you guys want to go to iTunes. Please rate the podcast. Give a rating. A love the written reviews. That helps me like crazy. That helps everyone else trying to find this kind of information as well. Anyway, it has been great. Last little shout out.

If you guys want to join with me and dive into this whole thing. Even if you don’t have a Click Funnels account, you can still watch. It’s just a Zoom link so you can do live Q & A with me with everyone else and we’ll build this whole thingSales Funnel Radio together.

And it’s going to be awesome and I’m going to keep doing that for a while. Mostly ’cause I love building funnels. Some of them are funnels I need to build anyway, personally. I just thought I would include you in the journey. Go to and you can check that on out. Anyway you guys are all awesome and I will talk to you later. Bye.

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